Is this 1-2-3-3-3-3-2-1 arrangement right or maybe is 2-1-3-3-3-3-1-2? Close sometimes, yes, but never exactly the same. If it does, you can keep doing this method of pulling the string to one side while locking down the pressure pad, or consider trying a different brand/gauge of strings. AmI right? 2. E:0.015. You dont have to pull it faryou just want it up against the side of the v-groove while you lock the pad down. Please can you advise? Once I know the difference between those string gauges, I can probably give you some idea of what to expect. So, I always avoid passing judgement on how qualified a luthier is or whether they did anything wrong. As well as this what action height do you use on your electrics, any specific measurements, just interested to hear what you use, thanks! Just curious haha. How to measure your guitars string height and the tools youll need for the job (dont worry, there arent many). That said, I generally recommend the lowest possible action for beginners just starting out. I dont recommend you buy that expensive spot leveler in the video. Now Im not sure what to do. my measurements: So, if you dont hear back from me within about 3 days or so, Ive also included instructions on that page for how to contact me via Facebook or Twitter. There is an annoying buzz on the B string from fret 1 3.
Its just impossible for me to know without personally inspecting the guitar. EDIT: I forgot to address your question about the nut. The top of your saddle has been shaped a specific way at the factory and needs to stay that way. He recommends around 2.5 for the low E string I believe, and a bit lower for the high E. Yet others recommend only shaving the nut slots down until there is barely no clearance above the first fret when the third fret is fretted (pressed down). However, my gut tells me that there isnt anything wrong. Cheers, My fingers hurt just hearing you say 3.5mm..
Now, my acoustic feels and plays more like my electrics, so the switch isnt too jarring for me. Will you please help me with a problem? Its really hard for me to make judgement calls like this, because I dont know the luthier and I cant talk to them.
Your nut measurements are fine, even if they may not always be spot-on with those that have been written down somewhere. Youre currently at double that height, so lower that action as soon as possible. Measuring and setting guitar string height involves dealing with very small measurements. Now if I fret at the 17th or 19th fret I dont get any buzzing unless I lower it even further. Sean, yes, you can use that method to gauge height for all your strings. Im wondering if I have either a Low fret at the 17th or a high fret at the 18th, and mostly only on that spot either at the 17th or 18th around the D and G strings or if this is correctable without a fret-job but something else instead? Its hard to say what too low isas its a matter of personal taste.
Dear Sir, thank you so very much for your advice. So I looked the saddles and saw that two pieces have one circular mark, two more have two circular marks and thre have thre circular marks, so I thought, ok, the right order is 1-2-3-3-3-3-2-1 and I placed them like that, they create an arch just like must be (at least on my thoughts), but the sitar sound was there, not so loud as the begining but it remains, so here goes the another question: If you feel that youve shaved as much off the saddle as possible, and have set the neck relief correctly, and your action still isnt low enough, then something else may be going on here. If youre uncomfortable removing the neck, I can certainly understand that. Firstly, guitars are made to be played and, as I said above, frets wear out. The only way to know for sure is to check with a fret rocker. Just put a little baking soda in it using a toothpick to shape it, put a drop of CA glue on it, and then smooth it up using a file.
Hope this is helpful to somebody out there. Its a great question, because when youre new to guitar you really have no frame-of-reference for what a good action is or what it feels like. Heres a quick video demo, where they use thin bone shims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlt49vWtH9Y.
Actually i have reduced the length of the string as much as possible but it s still flat. Please see my email response to you on this. A: 0.030 Low B ..006 A little fret buzz. Generally speaking, while pressing the string at the 3rd fret, you want just the tiniest bit of clearance between the string and the 1st fret, but not too much. This is at no additional cost to you. Ideally, we like to use very thin strips of hardwood for such shims, but paper will at least allow you to do a diagnostic test, and then your luthier could properly shim it later. I highly recommend you watch a couple tutorials first. If you cant find a new nut for your exact guitar thats already pre-shaped and slotted, any guitar tech with a modicum of skill can fashion you a new one from a nut blank. Not a good idea. 12 fret: Zacker, youre on the right track. You can use these if you want to also measure your string height at the 1st fret. There could be an issue with the neck joint itself, or perhaps improper humidity has caused the top wood to swell. Some players like medium action, and some like it high. You see, the shorter a guitars scale length, the larger the vibrational arc of the string is.
Lighten Up! Hi sir, my action at 12th fret is around 6mm for low E and 5mm for high E and maybe thats why i am finding it very difficult to play barre chords. Thank you so much.
I bought the Brooklyn live model which was $395 and on top of that I had a 10% discount code lol. Filing your nut slot deeper will only lower the action in those lower registers, and have VERY little effect on the 12th fret height.
Can you tell me the gauge of the current strings, and then the gauges of the two sets youve got there? Ive experienced this occasionally with my guitars (Ive played 7-string Ibanez RGs my whole life, so Ive experienced just about everything they can throw at you).
I would like to reduce fret wear on my new guitar. This is done to ensure maximum tone transfer, sustain, etc. How to Clean and Polish Guitar Frets [Step by Step], Action! Ive seen where some people say you can fix a nut slot thats been cut too deep. A tad high for my wimpy fingers, but very reasonable for most people. By the way, what is your neck relief measurements if you dont mind sharing? Im somewhere between low and medium, which I find better for bending, and feel I get overall better tone and sustain. Would it be better to buy a better guitar? My current guitar has action really high, so I can not compare, as I am looking for a change. Gerry Haze has written a good article about that topic here: Shaving an Acoustic Guitar Bridge. I measured that the action of my guitar on low E was around 0.27 inches / 6.86 mm. I usually recommend a single small piece of hardwood (ideally, one that matches the fretboards wood) to do this instead, but your method of using stacked strips of copper tape will work too in a pinch. Low E (6) 2.30mm If youre lucky, youll pull the saddle out and find a very thin shim under it. Most acoustics, however, need a bit more relief than that, but every guitars a bit different. Not the top. Firstly, your action measurements are actually really goodwhat most acoustic players would consider low.. Thats all part of setting up an acoustic. Labels like light, extra light, etc. But I still would like to get down to 2.00mm and 1.5mm, What I did was to adjust the truss rod a tiny bit and I got it exactly to: it was a lot of trial and error but it worked.
Ive never had it happen on 3 strings before. However, I definitely think you could get by with a spot level, so push for that instead. It was a thorough question, so I want to give you a thorough answer, which will take me another couple days. Remove the shim, replace the saddle, and string it back up. Generally, if you were to raise your action enough, without compensating for it by adjusting intonation, your note would be just a tad sharp when pressed.
6 mm in the 12th fret of low e string and 5 mm in the 12th fret of high e string(I have an acoustic guitar)Is this the reason for muted barre chord? I dont do any of that, but its important for you to know this so you can ask your guitar tech how THEY measure. So now Im trying to fix it by my self. On the 12th fret the low E 3.5mm and the high E is also around 3.5. Instead, I use the 3rd fret press test (which is demonstrated by luthier Frank Fordon his website here) to get a general sense of whether the action at the nut is correct. When I purchased the guitar, the string height was 1.75mm and 2.25mm. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); If you want to learn to do you own basic guitar care and maintenance, youve come to the right place. Shimming is what Id do for this type of issue. Hi Mike. Lock the pad while holding it here, and test. Im noticing on a couple of my guitars, when I fret a note or chord near the nut of the guitar on a perfectly tuned guitar, the fretted note is out of tune. In fact, some people add and remove their saddle shims based on the humidity and time of year. and youre right, they can potentially cause distortions or other issues in that upper-fret area. Sorry for the delay. On my acoustic guitar, however, I get those suckers so low that its probably illegal in some states. What should i do, pls reply sir.. Hi Ayush. Ive watched and read all of the recommended tricks I could find, and still not really sure how to approach this. Still others like to use fractions. All this despite having very little clearance at first fret when pressed at the third.
Also, there are no absolutes with guitar workreferring to ideal measurements and tolerances. So, you can try that first if youd like without much risk. If so, those are pretty low measurements for an acoustic guitar. Also replaced a new set of DAddario strings. You didnt specify, so Ill assume youre measuring those string heights at the 1st fret? Two questions: Your email address will not be published. Hi B .003 Still having Sitar sound High E (1) 1.75mm, Neck relief at 7fret, holding 1st fret and 14 fret: Ill post measurements and videos this weekend. That same week I had the strings lowered on my guitar and its made such a difference. Now, do the same exact thing for the treble side: In reality, I dont actually measure string height at the 1st fret anymore, nor do many experienced guitar techs or luthiers. You can send me a message through my Contact Form and Ill do my best to help. Since Im not quite at the recommended .2.5 or 3 millimeters open string spacing, yet have barely any clearance at the first fret when I press the string down at the third fret, what approach should I take? Now that thats out of the way. If your luthiers professional opinion is that the guitar needs a refret, the advice he/she shouldve give you is to contact the manufacturer or the store where you bought the guitar. The risks to filing the saddle deeper is that if not done right the string could bind in the slotwhich could result in tuning instability and/or frequent string breakage. The B is a tad over 0.015 maybe 0.017 Thats a procedure thats 1) extremely involved, slightly destructive, and expensive and 2) usually only needed on very old guitars or guitars with damaged frets. Great article! come from the factory with fairly high action. Its not difficult to do, but does require a bit of finesse to keep the saddle level and apply even pressure during sanding. Hi Mike.
Would rather cut deeper groove than shim since only E is affected.
This explains why when I play a chord on the lower frets, it sounds awful and out of tune, despite me playing it properly. What the heck is a low action on guitar? To your other question, nut height mainly affects action in the lower registers. Remember: sand the flat underside of the saddle, not the top, and dont remove too much material at once. Everyone seems to have a slightly different opinion. Im guessing a fret job would be next, though the frets dont look worn at all. Im not sure if that was clear from my previous explanation, but you definitely dont want anything on the top of the saddle (between the saddle and the string). I recently bought at Yamaha F335 to learn to play. Hi, I have a tricky situation. You rock! When it comes to measurements, the guitar world seems evenly split right now between imperial (inches) and metric (millimeters). However, whether you use baking soda or bone, this is actually just stop-gap measure. Anyway. hello:) ive had a Cort AD810 (my first acoustic) for a year & have been struggling mostly with playing barre chords which i can do just fine on classic/electric ever since. Tell them youd like the guitar set up for a nice, low action without buzzing, using the strings youve provided. Now all I need to do is to master that annoying Bm chord! If you WERE going to lower the action at the nut, youd want to file the string slots themselves, not lower the whole nut. For the other setup/action questions, Id really need to inspect the guitar. 3. I created a huge master-listing of ultra light guitar strings in this article. i have a problem with my high e string. i know i cant trust myself with adjusting according to what id think is right soo i definitely need some help:)) thank you for your time. Do not measure string height with the guitar on its back, because gravity will bend the neck just enough to make your measurement inaccurate: Always make such measurements with the guitar upright in the playing position. I dont know why it happens, but sometimes the grooves get worn or the string just isnt sitting right in the groove and it produces this sitar sound. Lastly, you asked about my neck relief on my acoustic. B: 0.015 The wear shows up on the first 5 frets of the thinner strings. That way you can focus on learning rather than physically fighting the guitar, at least until you build hand strength and dexterity.
Reduce the feeler gauge stack by a couple of thou and go again. As well as reading this excellent guide Ive also looked at Gibson nut height specs are: E: 0.030 2) My old guitar still plays ok in spite of some significant fret wear. In other words, youll have to take the saddle out of the bridge and place the paper shim underneath itand youll want it actually under the high E string (the far end of the shim), not under the B string, otherwise the saddle might rock like a seesaw. I asked to have settings low but without buzzing or growling.
Originaly it had an Ibanez Lo-TRS trem. Ive watched several videos and it doesnt look to complicated if I take my time. Id recommend you look at the various setup guides I offer here on my website. I think that this is working. I bought a Shubb adjustable capo but am wondering if you could recommend strings that would reduce fret wear. I would love to hear your advice on what approach I should take, and what solutions you can recommend to avoid ugly sharp sounding notes and chords. Roughly 0.17mm, Now, I dont know much but I feel like its a pretty decent action. You really love what you do. what about the 4 middle strings..Ive just bought some nut files and was thinking of lowering them, could I use the 3rd fret method and lower them all so the are a whisper above the first fret when I am pressing the string down on the third fret? Once youve got a set of nice, light strings, dont unbox or install them. As you spend more and more time with the guitar, youll eventually develop a personal preference for what action feels right for you. I played the guitar for a year or so, therefore I ended up having thick callus on each of my fingers, but I think having thick calluses does not really help me when playing my guitar, since it kind of feels irritating when I try to play barre chords and other stuff which I feel is beyond the limit of what I can do with my guitar that has a very high action based on your article. Its about comparing 2 different guitars, I want to buy another one but I wasnt sure and your opinion would mean a lot to me. 2. Hope that helps.
What do you recommend me to do to get it a little bit lower as your guitar? Sometimes you get lucky and are able to lower the action a bit without any noticeable buzzing. Should I sand the whole nut or just file the low e down. I removed it, and see that it was filed down.
Also, you still have to know how to properly re-crown the area you flattened, and unless you have experience doing this, I recommend you leave it all to a pro. Also, Acoustic strings can need to be strummed or plucked harder, requiring a slightly higher action.
Combine that with the fact that this naturally lowers the strings and youve got a recipe for fret buzz. Ive also checked the nut height with feeler gauges. After filing down the saddle it measures 2.5 mm at the 12 fret. Did you specifically ask him to lower the action? I got it down to around .060 and .070 in play with the bridge for a bit, and all but a few spots played GREAT.
why would you NOT set the action for them as well? If you decide to do this, come back and let me know how it worked out. Ive known a few Classical guitarists who kept a winter saddle and a summer saddle in their guitar case. The guitar arrived and I was impressed with the quality of the guitar. Or, if youre getting buzz and know your frets are in good shape, you may simply need to tweak the truss rod a little bit to account for the lower action. What helped me was switching to ultra-light strings (I use 10 50 on my acoustic).
So if you only set the action on the low E and High E what happens to the all the other strings? To be clear: youll sand the bottom (flat side) of the saddle. Dont forget to tell me what kind of guitar you have (electric, acoustic, or Classical). Hi Chris. She was ok for 10 years, but I taked it to the beach for 6 months and she came back with several fret buzz and an annoying SITAR sound on the hi E, hi B and hi G strings, it happens when playing open strings. Very helpful. Nothing wrong with that, however, its possible your neck might set up better with just a little more relief. This takes longer, but is better than accidentally over-sanding and removing too much material. When I was a teenager, I attempted to spot level a high fret (had the same kind of buzzing as youin just 1-2 spots) and screwed it up.
However, give it a try and see if it eliminates the sitar buzz. Ive checked the neck relief by doing the tap test and there is a small gap, (could get it a bit straighter but not by much). Really though, you could experiment by putting very thin strips of paper under just the treble side of the saddle. If you go for the lower action, ask your luthier if theyll include a thin shim for this purpose: so you can raise the height if needed. Though its not difficult, it does require a bit of skill. Never make a guitar adjustment just to hit a number thats printed/suggested in a book or a website (including mine). Bobby Davis is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Hes definitely playing a guitar with super duper high action and cant even get close to pressing the strings down which causes it to sound muted. Level too far, and youll create a low spot, and then ALL the other frets will have to be filed down to match it (in other words, a complete fret level-and-crown).
However, they shouldve contacted you before doing so, so there were no misunderstandings on either side. Im already getting a tiny bit of fret buzz so I cant lower it any further. Your advice has been very helpful. Love your site and willingness to take the time to answer questions.
3. I would advise you to just take it to a pro. As seasons change and guitars become wet or dry with changing humidity, theyll swap-out their saddles to keep the action comfortable. Thanks for providing it! Youll take this measurement at the 12th fret with the strings open (unfretted). Theyll adjust the truss rod, deepen the nut slots (if necessary), and shave the bridge.
Unfortunately, there is no correct or official answer to this. To remedy this, pull the string gently to one side (either toward the treble or bass side of the neck) and hold it there while locking down the pressure pad. According to what I saw above, your guitar is at low E 2.1mm and high E 1.5mm correct? Keep me posted! Now that you know the proper way to measure your guitars string height, lets talk about some actual numbers. Im pretty sure the action is to high. Since my string is slightly above the black line here, I need to add 0.1mm to the measurement shown. If the rest of your neck is playing good at that action, and youve only got a few high or low spots, then you probably can avoid having to level the entire neck (though, thats what most luthiers and techs will recommend). Your action measurements are pretty low for an acoustic guitar. what if they were raeally high , more so than the two outer ones? My question is: Is it ok for a beginner to try to lower the action? When I press down at the third fret on my guitar, there isnt much clearance at all at the first fret. Thank you kindly for your advice and help. I used stew macs shim on my bass. 3) (Sometimes) adjusting the depth of the nuts string slots. Thank you for explaining so well. Wash, rinse, repeat. I find it difficult to play the strings nearer to the 12th fret. High E (1) 0.36mm, 12 fret: Hi Kane. And with that piezo system in there, I wouldnt want you to muck anything up. If you dont mind me asking, what is your objection to shimming? Just to be clear, the shim should actually go under the saddle. Even the high-end Martins, Taylors, etc. Note: Some people (and guitar manufacturers) measure string height at some fret other than the 12th such as the 17th. But what if you go to far and ruin the nut!? Ive just bought an action ruler and at the 12th fret both my Low and High Es are at 3.5 mm, and 0.75mm at the first fret. Though subjective, this is method is usually sufficient to ensure youve got the right amount of string height at the nut, though it doesnt give you an actual measurement. My low e is around 0.035 So, according to what you see here, the string height of my low E is roughly 2.1mm. Very cool tip Paul. I am happy with how it plays. Now, you not only know how to measure your guitars string height or action, you finally have some idea of where your guitar falls on the spectrum of low, medium, and high action. Fingers Sore from Playing Guitar?
Youd basically doing the same thing as filing the whole saddle loweryoud just be doing it on a string-by-string basis and run the same risk with the break angle. When youre just checking your guitars action, its not really critical to measure at the 1st fret too. Here, Ill be giving all measurements in millimeters and decimal-inches, because thats what Im most familiar with. String height does indeed affect intonation. I have ordered another saddle from England and it is on its way. I think this would be a great article for you to write. It would be my hope that your luthier knows all this and has already experimented to find the best relief for you neck. Its much more playable than before but still I would like to lose some more. Of course, that would alter everything else, including your action. Unfortunately, that video was way too long for me to watch, but the general premise youre describing is correct: if notes in the lower registers are sharp when you fret them (despite tuning and intonation being correct), its usually because your nut slots are too high. Perfect. First question: How low can I go? Using just the outer Es gives all of us a quick way to talk about this stuff. Zacker, youre correct. Im curious to hear how your modification turns out. Or, alternatively, theyll keep shims in their case (for the same reason). I had a small strip of tippin before that but it made the neck distort at the top frets. Even if you have to raise it as high as 1.6mm, thats still a pretty low action for an acoustic guitar. Fear not, I got your message, but it wont show up here until I have a chance to reply to it. But, then I also noted that I could lower my action a good bit at the bridge. This article isnt about setting action though, its about simply measuring action. But youre in luck on that front. As I said, thats the normal procedure for lowering action, and bridge saddles can be easily replaced if something were to go wrong. Since Im still getting sharp notes with fretted chords, Im guessing I need to keep shaving the nut slot down, yet Im nervous that Ill end up going to low. It is possible to just spot-level the few problem spots. First at all, thank you very much for this complete guide. I have Light and Extra Light Gauge ready to install. High E (1) 1.55mm. Here are the things I use to measure string height (useful for other guitar measurements too): To be honest, this is the only measurement you need when talking about action, but later in this article Ill discuss the option of measuring at the 1st fret too. Also I disarmed the floy rose and saw that the saddles were scrambled, then I tried to get the right position of the saddles asking to floyd rose support team, but they only told me that the order is 0-2-1-1-2-0, I replied them that mine is a 7 string guitar, I sended them images from the FR and saddles and asked again for the information, they never answered me after that. If it beeps it is touching the string. The same can be said for the nut. You didnt specify what kind of guitar you have, but its safe to say that with action THAT high you need a proper setup.
You can go as low as needed as long as theres still enough of an angle behind the saddle (from the saddle to the bridge pins) to maintain good downward pressure on the bridge saddle. Also, when you pull the saddle out, keep track of which side is treble and which is bass. But, for some reason the string can vibrate against the sides of that v-groove which produces a telltale sitar-like sound when the strings are played open. The high E is bang on 0.015. In other words, the goal isnt always to have your guitar strings as low as possible. When you lower the saddle, even if done right you might get some string buzz depending on how good your fretwork is (or the general condition of your frets). However, if youre diving into a full setup, then you would indeed want to ensure each string is set to its optimal height (again, they should all generally follow the curve of the fingerboard). Just figured Id share my current experience since it seems were both in the exploration stage of figured this all out. If you have a Floyd Rose style tremolo, where the saddle height isnt adjustable, you can use bridge saddle shims to do something similar. Sure, tightening the truss rod will lower the strings, but thats not why you do it. I also took your advice and ordered some extra light and light action strings. Thanks again.
Instead of spending $50, Id rather order a gauge and string winder and give it a shot myself. I really appreciate it. Honestly, I get the string height at the 1st fret as low as possible without string buzz. They do this on purpose so the eventual owner can have the guitar setup (and the action lowered or raised) to their taste. If not, youll need to sand the saddle. To lower the action on an acoustic guitar (or electric), the truss rod isnt what you want to adjust. If not, youll need to sand the saddle a bit. The full-pocket shims are not only more accurate, there are multiple benefits to filling the entire neck pocket. Thank you for the great info! mean different things depending on the string manufacturer.
I bought a new Eastman AC422-CE acoustic guitar and set it up per your low action recommendations at the 12th fret. Vague terms like low, medium, and high are open to interpretation and may not get you what youre expecting, depending on who works on your guitar that day. Hi Kes! I would like to get it a bit lower to improve playability. So, a setup that makes one guitar sound and feel perfect might not be quite right for another guitar even if its the exact same model. Hi! Thank you so much, I really appreciate your detailed answer.
With that said, Im confused on what approach I should take. Since you describe it as a sitar sound, and youve already addressed the frets, I think its the locking nut. When It still didnt go away, he said that I need to re-fret the guitar. However, that doesnt mean you shouldnt at least try lowering your action. Second question: If I cant go lower the only option is to remove the whole bridge and sand it down (of which personally I am not cable) or is there anything else I can do? Whenever I play an attaching D Chord, it is pretty loud. Using a feeler gauge, measure the distance from the top of the 1st fret to the underside of the lowest (fattest) string. The neck relief is on 0.40 mm at the hi E and 0.50 mm at the low B. Ciao Frank. So, watch that page, or join my email list to be notified as soon as its available. Saddly there is not official information by Ibanez, (I asked them and they didnt answer) about the string action on the first fret, so I checked it and this is what I have, and some questions: Hi E .002 Still having Sitar sound They are very helpful. I measure relief around the 7th fret, using a precision straightedge and a tapered feeler gauge to measure the actual gap between the top of the 7th fret and the straightedge. Do it 1 strip at a time until the buzzing stops (assuming it stops), and then measure the high Es action to see where its at. Consider using really light guitar strings, at least until you build some skill, dexterity, and finger toughness.
Its just impossible for me to know without personally inspecting the guitar. EDIT: I forgot to address your question about the nut. The top of your saddle has been shaped a specific way at the factory and needs to stay that way. He recommends around 2.5 for the low E string I believe, and a bit lower for the high E. Yet others recommend only shaving the nut slots down until there is barely no clearance above the first fret when the third fret is fretted (pressed down). However, my gut tells me that there isnt anything wrong. Cheers, My fingers hurt just hearing you say 3.5mm..
Now, my acoustic feels and plays more like my electrics, so the switch isnt too jarring for me. Will you please help me with a problem? Its really hard for me to make judgement calls like this, because I dont know the luthier and I cant talk to them.
Your nut measurements are fine, even if they may not always be spot-on with those that have been written down somewhere. Youre currently at double that height, so lower that action as soon as possible. Measuring and setting guitar string height involves dealing with very small measurements. Now if I fret at the 17th or 19th fret I dont get any buzzing unless I lower it even further. Sean, yes, you can use that method to gauge height for all your strings. Im wondering if I have either a Low fret at the 17th or a high fret at the 18th, and mostly only on that spot either at the 17th or 18th around the D and G strings or if this is correctable without a fret-job but something else instead? Its hard to say what too low isas its a matter of personal taste.
Dear Sir, thank you so very much for your advice. So I looked the saddles and saw that two pieces have one circular mark, two more have two circular marks and thre have thre circular marks, so I thought, ok, the right order is 1-2-3-3-3-3-2-1 and I placed them like that, they create an arch just like must be (at least on my thoughts), but the sitar sound was there, not so loud as the begining but it remains, so here goes the another question: If you feel that youve shaved as much off the saddle as possible, and have set the neck relief correctly, and your action still isnt low enough, then something else may be going on here. If youre uncomfortable removing the neck, I can certainly understand that. Firstly, guitars are made to be played and, as I said above, frets wear out. The only way to know for sure is to check with a fret rocker. Just put a little baking soda in it using a toothpick to shape it, put a drop of CA glue on it, and then smooth it up using a file.
Hope this is helpful to somebody out there. Its a great question, because when youre new to guitar you really have no frame-of-reference for what a good action is or what it feels like. Heres a quick video demo, where they use thin bone shims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlt49vWtH9Y.
Actually i have reduced the length of the string as much as possible but it s still flat. Please see my email response to you on this. A: 0.030 Low B ..006 A little fret buzz. Generally speaking, while pressing the string at the 3rd fret, you want just the tiniest bit of clearance between the string and the 1st fret, but not too much. This is at no additional cost to you. Ideally, we like to use very thin strips of hardwood for such shims, but paper will at least allow you to do a diagnostic test, and then your luthier could properly shim it later. I highly recommend you watch a couple tutorials first. If you cant find a new nut for your exact guitar thats already pre-shaped and slotted, any guitar tech with a modicum of skill can fashion you a new one from a nut blank. Not a good idea. 12 fret: Zacker, youre on the right track. You can use these if you want to also measure your string height at the 1st fret. There could be an issue with the neck joint itself, or perhaps improper humidity has caused the top wood to swell. Some players like medium action, and some like it high. You see, the shorter a guitars scale length, the larger the vibrational arc of the string is.
Lighten Up! Hi sir, my action at 12th fret is around 6mm for low E and 5mm for high E and maybe thats why i am finding it very difficult to play barre chords. Thank you so much.
I bought the Brooklyn live model which was $395 and on top of that I had a 10% discount code lol. Filing your nut slot deeper will only lower the action in those lower registers, and have VERY little effect on the 12th fret height.
Can you tell me the gauge of the current strings, and then the gauges of the two sets youve got there? Ive experienced this occasionally with my guitars (Ive played 7-string Ibanez RGs my whole life, so Ive experienced just about everything they can throw at you).
I would like to reduce fret wear on my new guitar. This is done to ensure maximum tone transfer, sustain, etc. How to Clean and Polish Guitar Frets [Step by Step], Action! Ive seen where some people say you can fix a nut slot thats been cut too deep. A tad high for my wimpy fingers, but very reasonable for most people. By the way, what is your neck relief measurements if you dont mind sharing? Im somewhere between low and medium, which I find better for bending, and feel I get overall better tone and sustain. Would it be better to buy a better guitar? My current guitar has action really high, so I can not compare, as I am looking for a change. Gerry Haze has written a good article about that topic here: Shaving an Acoustic Guitar Bridge. I measured that the action of my guitar on low E was around 0.27 inches / 6.86 mm. I usually recommend a single small piece of hardwood (ideally, one that matches the fretboards wood) to do this instead, but your method of using stacked strips of copper tape will work too in a pinch. Low E (6) 2.30mm If youre lucky, youll pull the saddle out and find a very thin shim under it. Most acoustics, however, need a bit more relief than that, but every guitars a bit different. Not the top. Firstly, your action measurements are actually really goodwhat most acoustic players would consider low.. Thats all part of setting up an acoustic. Labels like light, extra light, etc. But I still would like to get down to 2.00mm and 1.5mm, What I did was to adjust the truss rod a tiny bit and I got it exactly to: it was a lot of trial and error but it worked.
Ive never had it happen on 3 strings before. However, I definitely think you could get by with a spot level, so push for that instead. It was a thorough question, so I want to give you a thorough answer, which will take me another couple days. Remove the shim, replace the saddle, and string it back up. Generally, if you were to raise your action enough, without compensating for it by adjusting intonation, your note would be just a tad sharp when pressed.
6 mm in the 12th fret of low e string and 5 mm in the 12th fret of high e string(I have an acoustic guitar)Is this the reason for muted barre chord? I dont do any of that, but its important for you to know this so you can ask your guitar tech how THEY measure. So now Im trying to fix it by my self. On the 12th fret the low E 3.5mm and the high E is also around 3.5. Instead, I use the 3rd fret press test (which is demonstrated by luthier Frank Fordon his website here) to get a general sense of whether the action at the nut is correct. When I purchased the guitar, the string height was 1.75mm and 2.25mm. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); If you want to learn to do you own basic guitar care and maintenance, youve come to the right place. Shimming is what Id do for this type of issue. Hi Mike. Lock the pad while holding it here, and test. Im noticing on a couple of my guitars, when I fret a note or chord near the nut of the guitar on a perfectly tuned guitar, the fretted note is out of tune. In fact, some people add and remove their saddle shims based on the humidity and time of year. and youre right, they can potentially cause distortions or other issues in that upper-fret area. Sorry for the delay. On my acoustic guitar, however, I get those suckers so low that its probably illegal in some states. What should i do, pls reply sir.. Hi Ayush. Ive watched and read all of the recommended tricks I could find, and still not really sure how to approach this. Still others like to use fractions. All this despite having very little clearance at first fret when pressed at the third.
Also, there are no absolutes with guitar workreferring to ideal measurements and tolerances. So, you can try that first if youd like without much risk. If so, those are pretty low measurements for an acoustic guitar. Also replaced a new set of DAddario strings. You didnt specify, so Ill assume youre measuring those string heights at the 1st fret? Two questions: Your email address will not be published. Hi B .003 Still having Sitar sound High E (1) 1.75mm, Neck relief at 7fret, holding 1st fret and 14 fret: Ill post measurements and videos this weekend. That same week I had the strings lowered on my guitar and its made such a difference. Now, do the same exact thing for the treble side: In reality, I dont actually measure string height at the 1st fret anymore, nor do many experienced guitar techs or luthiers. You can send me a message through my Contact Form and Ill do my best to help. Since Im not quite at the recommended .2.5 or 3 millimeters open string spacing, yet have barely any clearance at the first fret when I press the string down at the third fret, what approach should I take? Now that thats out of the way. If your luthiers professional opinion is that the guitar needs a refret, the advice he/she shouldve give you is to contact the manufacturer or the store where you bought the guitar. The risks to filing the saddle deeper is that if not done right the string could bind in the slotwhich could result in tuning instability and/or frequent string breakage. The B is a tad over 0.015 maybe 0.017 Thats a procedure thats 1) extremely involved, slightly destructive, and expensive and 2) usually only needed on very old guitars or guitars with damaged frets. Great article! come from the factory with fairly high action. Its not difficult to do, but does require a bit of finesse to keep the saddle level and apply even pressure during sanding. Hi Mike.
Would rather cut deeper groove than shim since only E is affected.
This explains why when I play a chord on the lower frets, it sounds awful and out of tune, despite me playing it properly. What the heck is a low action on guitar? To your other question, nut height mainly affects action in the lower registers. Remember: sand the flat underside of the saddle, not the top, and dont remove too much material at once. Everyone seems to have a slightly different opinion. Im guessing a fret job would be next, though the frets dont look worn at all. Im not sure if that was clear from my previous explanation, but you definitely dont want anything on the top of the saddle (between the saddle and the string). I recently bought at Yamaha F335 to learn to play. Hi, I have a tricky situation. You rock! When it comes to measurements, the guitar world seems evenly split right now between imperial (inches) and metric (millimeters). However, whether you use baking soda or bone, this is actually just stop-gap measure. Anyway. hello:) ive had a Cort AD810 (my first acoustic) for a year & have been struggling mostly with playing barre chords which i can do just fine on classic/electric ever since. Tell them youd like the guitar set up for a nice, low action without buzzing, using the strings youve provided. Now all I need to do is to master that annoying Bm chord! If you WERE going to lower the action at the nut, youd want to file the string slots themselves, not lower the whole nut. For the other setup/action questions, Id really need to inspect the guitar. 3. I created a huge master-listing of ultra light guitar strings in this article. i have a problem with my high e string. i know i cant trust myself with adjusting according to what id think is right soo i definitely need some help:)) thank you for your time. Do not measure string height with the guitar on its back, because gravity will bend the neck just enough to make your measurement inaccurate: Always make such measurements with the guitar upright in the playing position. I dont know why it happens, but sometimes the grooves get worn or the string just isnt sitting right in the groove and it produces this sitar sound. Lastly, you asked about my neck relief on my acoustic. B: 0.015 The wear shows up on the first 5 frets of the thinner strings. That way you can focus on learning rather than physically fighting the guitar, at least until you build hand strength and dexterity.
Reduce the feeler gauge stack by a couple of thou and go again. As well as reading this excellent guide Ive also looked at Gibson nut height specs are: E: 0.030 2) My old guitar still plays ok in spite of some significant fret wear. In other words, youll have to take the saddle out of the bridge and place the paper shim underneath itand youll want it actually under the high E string (the far end of the shim), not under the B string, otherwise the saddle might rock like a seesaw. I asked to have settings low but without buzzing or growling.
Originaly it had an Ibanez Lo-TRS trem. Ive watched several videos and it doesnt look to complicated if I take my time. Id recommend you look at the various setup guides I offer here on my website. I think that this is working. I bought a Shubb adjustable capo but am wondering if you could recommend strings that would reduce fret wear. I would love to hear your advice on what approach I should take, and what solutions you can recommend to avoid ugly sharp sounding notes and chords. Roughly 0.17mm, Now, I dont know much but I feel like its a pretty decent action. You really love what you do. what about the 4 middle strings..Ive just bought some nut files and was thinking of lowering them, could I use the 3rd fret method and lower them all so the are a whisper above the first fret when I am pressing the string down on the third fret? Once youve got a set of nice, light strings, dont unbox or install them. As you spend more and more time with the guitar, youll eventually develop a personal preference for what action feels right for you. I played the guitar for a year or so, therefore I ended up having thick callus on each of my fingers, but I think having thick calluses does not really help me when playing my guitar, since it kind of feels irritating when I try to play barre chords and other stuff which I feel is beyond the limit of what I can do with my guitar that has a very high action based on your article. Its about comparing 2 different guitars, I want to buy another one but I wasnt sure and your opinion would mean a lot to me. 2. Hope that helps.
What do you recommend me to do to get it a little bit lower as your guitar? Sometimes you get lucky and are able to lower the action a bit without any noticeable buzzing. Should I sand the whole nut or just file the low e down. I removed it, and see that it was filed down.
Also, you still have to know how to properly re-crown the area you flattened, and unless you have experience doing this, I recommend you leave it all to a pro. Also, Acoustic strings can need to be strummed or plucked harder, requiring a slightly higher action.
Combine that with the fact that this naturally lowers the strings and youve got a recipe for fret buzz. Ive also checked the nut height with feeler gauges. After filing down the saddle it measures 2.5 mm at the 12 fret. Did you specifically ask him to lower the action? I got it down to around .060 and .070 in play with the bridge for a bit, and all but a few spots played GREAT.
why would you NOT set the action for them as well? If you decide to do this, come back and let me know how it worked out. Ive known a few Classical guitarists who kept a winter saddle and a summer saddle in their guitar case. The guitar arrived and I was impressed with the quality of the guitar. Or, if youre getting buzz and know your frets are in good shape, you may simply need to tweak the truss rod a little bit to account for the lower action. What helped me was switching to ultra-light strings (I use 10 50 on my acoustic).
So if you only set the action on the low E and High E what happens to the all the other strings? To be clear: youll sand the bottom (flat side) of the saddle. Dont forget to tell me what kind of guitar you have (electric, acoustic, or Classical). Hi Chris. She was ok for 10 years, but I taked it to the beach for 6 months and she came back with several fret buzz and an annoying SITAR sound on the hi E, hi B and hi G strings, it happens when playing open strings. Very helpful. Nothing wrong with that, however, its possible your neck might set up better with just a little more relief. This takes longer, but is better than accidentally over-sanding and removing too much material. When I was a teenager, I attempted to spot level a high fret (had the same kind of buzzing as youin just 1-2 spots) and screwed it up.
However, give it a try and see if it eliminates the sitar buzz. Ive checked the neck relief by doing the tap test and there is a small gap, (could get it a bit straighter but not by much). Really though, you could experiment by putting very thin strips of paper under just the treble side of the saddle. If you go for the lower action, ask your luthier if theyll include a thin shim for this purpose: so you can raise the height if needed. Though its not difficult, it does require a bit of skill. Never make a guitar adjustment just to hit a number thats printed/suggested in a book or a website (including mine). Bobby Davis is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Hes definitely playing a guitar with super duper high action and cant even get close to pressing the strings down which causes it to sound muted. Level too far, and youll create a low spot, and then ALL the other frets will have to be filed down to match it (in other words, a complete fret level-and-crown).
However, they shouldve contacted you before doing so, so there were no misunderstandings on either side. Im already getting a tiny bit of fret buzz so I cant lower it any further. Your advice has been very helpful. Love your site and willingness to take the time to answer questions.
3. I would advise you to just take it to a pro. As seasons change and guitars become wet or dry with changing humidity, theyll swap-out their saddles to keep the action comfortable. Thanks for providing it! Youll take this measurement at the 12th fret with the strings open (unfretted). Theyll adjust the truss rod, deepen the nut slots (if necessary), and shave the bridge.
Unfortunately, there is no correct or official answer to this. To remedy this, pull the string gently to one side (either toward the treble or bass side of the neck) and hold it there while locking down the pressure pad. According to what I saw above, your guitar is at low E 2.1mm and high E 1.5mm correct? Keep me posted! Now that you know the proper way to measure your guitars string height, lets talk about some actual numbers. Im pretty sure the action is to high. Since my string is slightly above the black line here, I need to add 0.1mm to the measurement shown. If the rest of your neck is playing good at that action, and youve only got a few high or low spots, then you probably can avoid having to level the entire neck (though, thats what most luthiers and techs will recommend). Your action measurements are pretty low for an acoustic guitar. what if they were raeally high , more so than the two outer ones? My question is: Is it ok for a beginner to try to lower the action? When I press down at the third fret on my guitar, there isnt much clearance at all at the first fret. Thank you kindly for your advice and help. I used stew macs shim on my bass. 3) (Sometimes) adjusting the depth of the nuts string slots. Thank you for explaining so well. Wash, rinse, repeat. I find it difficult to play the strings nearer to the 12th fret. High E (1) 0.36mm, 12 fret: Hi Kane. And with that piezo system in there, I wouldnt want you to muck anything up. If you dont mind me asking, what is your objection to shimming? Just to be clear, the shim should actually go under the saddle. Even the high-end Martins, Taylors, etc. Note: Some people (and guitar manufacturers) measure string height at some fret other than the 12th such as the 17th. But what if you go to far and ruin the nut!? Ive just bought an action ruler and at the 12th fret both my Low and High Es are at 3.5 mm, and 0.75mm at the first fret. Though subjective, this is method is usually sufficient to ensure youve got the right amount of string height at the nut, though it doesnt give you an actual measurement. My low e is around 0.035 So, according to what you see here, the string height of my low E is roughly 2.1mm. Very cool tip Paul. I am happy with how it plays. Now, you not only know how to measure your guitars string height or action, you finally have some idea of where your guitar falls on the spectrum of low, medium, and high action. Fingers Sore from Playing Guitar?
Youd basically doing the same thing as filing the whole saddle loweryoud just be doing it on a string-by-string basis and run the same risk with the break angle. When youre just checking your guitars action, its not really critical to measure at the 1st fret too. Here, Ill be giving all measurements in millimeters and decimal-inches, because thats what Im most familiar with. String height does indeed affect intonation. I have ordered another saddle from England and it is on its way. I think this would be a great article for you to write. It would be my hope that your luthier knows all this and has already experimented to find the best relief for you neck. Its much more playable than before but still I would like to lose some more. Of course, that would alter everything else, including your action. Unfortunately, that video was way too long for me to watch, but the general premise youre describing is correct: if notes in the lower registers are sharp when you fret them (despite tuning and intonation being correct), its usually because your nut slots are too high. Perfect. First question: How low can I go? Using just the outer Es gives all of us a quick way to talk about this stuff. Zacker, youre correct. Im curious to hear how your modification turns out. Or, alternatively, theyll keep shims in their case (for the same reason). I had a small strip of tippin before that but it made the neck distort at the top frets. Even if you have to raise it as high as 1.6mm, thats still a pretty low action for an acoustic guitar. Fear not, I got your message, but it wont show up here until I have a chance to reply to it. But, then I also noted that I could lower my action a good bit at the bridge. This article isnt about setting action though, its about simply measuring action. But youre in luck on that front. As I said, thats the normal procedure for lowering action, and bridge saddles can be easily replaced if something were to go wrong. Since Im still getting sharp notes with fretted chords, Im guessing I need to keep shaving the nut slot down, yet Im nervous that Ill end up going to low. It is possible to just spot-level the few problem spots. First at all, thank you very much for this complete guide. I have Light and Extra Light Gauge ready to install. High E (1) 1.55mm. Here are the things I use to measure string height (useful for other guitar measurements too): To be honest, this is the only measurement you need when talking about action, but later in this article Ill discuss the option of measuring at the 1st fret too. Also I disarmed the floy rose and saw that the saddles were scrambled, then I tried to get the right position of the saddles asking to floyd rose support team, but they only told me that the order is 0-2-1-1-2-0, I replied them that mine is a 7 string guitar, I sended them images from the FR and saddles and asked again for the information, they never answered me after that. If it beeps it is touching the string. The same can be said for the nut. You didnt specify what kind of guitar you have, but its safe to say that with action THAT high you need a proper setup.
You can go as low as needed as long as theres still enough of an angle behind the saddle (from the saddle to the bridge pins) to maintain good downward pressure on the bridge saddle. Also, when you pull the saddle out, keep track of which side is treble and which is bass. But, for some reason the string can vibrate against the sides of that v-groove which produces a telltale sitar-like sound when the strings are played open. The high E is bang on 0.015. In other words, the goal isnt always to have your guitar strings as low as possible. When you lower the saddle, even if done right you might get some string buzz depending on how good your fretwork is (or the general condition of your frets). However, if youre diving into a full setup, then you would indeed want to ensure each string is set to its optimal height (again, they should all generally follow the curve of the fingerboard). Just figured Id share my current experience since it seems were both in the exploration stage of figured this all out. If you have a Floyd Rose style tremolo, where the saddle height isnt adjustable, you can use bridge saddle shims to do something similar. Sure, tightening the truss rod will lower the strings, but thats not why you do it. I also took your advice and ordered some extra light and light action strings. Thanks again.
Instead of spending $50, Id rather order a gauge and string winder and give it a shot myself. I really appreciate it. Honestly, I get the string height at the 1st fret as low as possible without string buzz. They do this on purpose so the eventual owner can have the guitar setup (and the action lowered or raised) to their taste. If not, youll need to sand the saddle. To lower the action on an acoustic guitar (or electric), the truss rod isnt what you want to adjust. If not, youll need to sand the saddle a bit. The full-pocket shims are not only more accurate, there are multiple benefits to filling the entire neck pocket. Thank you for the great info! mean different things depending on the string manufacturer.
I bought a new Eastman AC422-CE acoustic guitar and set it up per your low action recommendations at the 12th fret. Vague terms like low, medium, and high are open to interpretation and may not get you what youre expecting, depending on who works on your guitar that day. Hi Kes! I would like to get it a bit lower to improve playability. So, a setup that makes one guitar sound and feel perfect might not be quite right for another guitar even if its the exact same model. Hi! Thank you so much, I really appreciate your detailed answer.
With that said, Im confused on what approach I should take. Since you describe it as a sitar sound, and youve already addressed the frets, I think its the locking nut. When It still didnt go away, he said that I need to re-fret the guitar. However, that doesnt mean you shouldnt at least try lowering your action. Second question: If I cant go lower the only option is to remove the whole bridge and sand it down (of which personally I am not cable) or is there anything else I can do? Whenever I play an attaching D Chord, it is pretty loud. Using a feeler gauge, measure the distance from the top of the 1st fret to the underside of the lowest (fattest) string. The neck relief is on 0.40 mm at the hi E and 0.50 mm at the low B. Ciao Frank. So, watch that page, or join my email list to be notified as soon as its available. Saddly there is not official information by Ibanez, (I asked them and they didnt answer) about the string action on the first fret, so I checked it and this is what I have, and some questions: Hi E .002 Still having Sitar sound They are very helpful. I measure relief around the 7th fret, using a precision straightedge and a tapered feeler gauge to measure the actual gap between the top of the 7th fret and the straightedge. Do it 1 strip at a time until the buzzing stops (assuming it stops), and then measure the high Es action to see where its at. Consider using really light guitar strings, at least until you build some skill, dexterity, and finger toughness.